Health Care Reaction


I didn’t hear the news until about 11:00.  I had just come out out of a meeting…got my car from the garage and was headed back into New Jersey from Manhattan.  I had an hour drive in front of me.  Here are the thoughts that went through my mind…

How could John Roberts side with the liberals?  The individual mandate is so clearly unconstitutional – even to a layperson – how could it be?

Kind of like a Vince Flynn book.  Someone got to Roberts.  I bet they got to him and told him he has to vote this way or members of his family – kids, wife, parents, whoever – were going to be killed.

Later this afternoon, it’s going to come out that Roberts was coerced.  A Secret Service agent overheard Obama and Axelrod discussing the Roberts blackmail.  He managed to get them on tape discussing it.  Later this afternoon, the whole story will come out, Roberts will issue his REAL opinion, and Obama and Axelrod will be taken away in handcuffs.

When my son is my age, will he be able to call the doctor and go see him?

How can I protect myself from the government?  Isn’t there some way I can hide from them?


I remember when I was in sales.  Most months, management would offer spiffs for the sale of certain products.  So I, and all the rest of he sales team, would immediately set about scheming on how to sell the stuff that would make us the most money.  Isn’t that what we’re supposed to do?

There was a story a couple years ago about a school system that took away hamburgers, pizza, chicken nuggets and all the good stuff.  A bunch of liberal nuts created a menu of quinoa, bean salad, and a bunch of other crap that nobody wants to eat.  It took about 3 weeks for a thriving black market food exchange to develop.  The kids were buying and selling smuggled cheeseburgers and pizza.  Are wonder if there are doctors who will just treat us for cash under the table?

Is it really gone?  Is the country gone?  If the government can make us buy health insurance, what else can they make us buy?

How come so many people think this is about health care?  To me it’s not about health care at all.  How can two people see things so completely differently?

Conundrum:  Obama says that people shouldn’t have to pay the medical bills for those who don’t have coverage, therefore everyone must have it.  But the people who are forced to buy it are being forced to pay for health care for others, since the new insurance purchasers are need to fund Obamacare.

What the hell is wrong with John Roberts?

They could tell us what to buy.  When to buy it.  What type to buy.  How many to buy.  How often to buy.  And if we don’t cooperate, they can take our property.  How is that not tyranny?

Can’t we do something?

How can one person – ONE person – someone who is unelected and unaccountable, decide the fate of the Republic?

Buy this or pay a fine!  That is now a tax.  Huh?

I think the only way to beat this is to make so much money, none of this matters.  Maybe this is good for some people?  If I can make say, $1 Million a year, will I really give a damn?  I suppose if I make that much, the government will confiscate the majority of it, but I’ll still do okay right?

I don’t think I have any faith in so-called conservatives in Congress.  Even if we get Romney, and filibuster-proof House and Senate, will they repeal this thing?  Will they really?

What CAN”T the government make you do?  I mean, if they can make you buy health insurance, why stop there?  How is it different than anything else?

Maybe this will be the straw that broke the camel’s back.  I bet this is going to fire up the Tea Party in a way that nobody could anticipate.  I wonder if Obama just sealed his fate for November, by inflaming us like this?

I wish Obama would put his god damned chin down.  I mean, who does that?  All kidding about God complexes aside, who holds poses like that?

I was worried before, now more than ever.  I really think the country as we know it is over.  We’re no longer the land of the free.

My emotions are strange.  I don’t feel anger or anything like that.  I’m genuinely sad.  I think the USA has been changed in a way that can’t be undone.

Will my kids be okay?

What can I do to protect my kids from the government?

All we can do is try to fix this with Congress.  It’s all we can even hope for.  So, I guess I’ll do my part.  I’m going to Tweet, Facebook, write letters, make phone calls, blog, heckle politicians, recruit friends, organize Tea Parties.  I am going to do everything in my legal power to vote every leftist out of office this November.  I will work tirelessly to this end.

I think this is the day America died.  So first, I’ll be sad for a day.

Comments

  1. Seriously says

    “The individual mandate is so clearly unconstitutional – even to a layperson – how could it be?”
    You’re not a constitutional scholar and it shows.

  2. mike allen says

    America…love it or leave it asshole

  3. Panther Modern says

    I’m curious; what parts of the Affordable Care Act are you opposed to?

  4. Rhea Tard says

    Best analysis I’ve read all day.

  5. Hehe – a liberal saying “love America.” Snort…

  6. The gubmint makes you buy car insurance. Where is hair-tearing over that?

  7. ACMESalesRep says

    Harry: What’s so funny? Liberals built the country, and liberals love it for what it is. It’s only so-called “conservatives” who rage against it and demand it be turned back into something it never was.

  8. Patrick Moran says

    Why are you concerned about your kids (“Will they be able to….”)? You sold out your kids when you sold out your soul, “scheming on how to… make the most money.” And to answer your question: no. No, that isn’t that what you’re supposed to do.

  9. Hi Gizo – Car insurance is different because you don’t have to drive. You can choose to drive or not. More importantly, it is the States that require you to buy the insurance. They get that power from the 10th Amendment.

  10. Hilarious says

    Funniest thing I’ve read all day!

  11. Pragmatist says

    HARRY – You said “Car insurance is different because you don’t have to drive.” The implication being that you do have to have health care. But your position is that even though you have to have health care, you should not have to pay for it. You are demanding a Constitutional right to a Free Lunch. The so-called Conservatives who share your view are simply unwilling to recognize that – ugly as the mandate is – it is the lesser of 3 evils – mandate, spend $43 Billion of taxpayer money top cover those who can afford insurance but choose not to get it, or “let em die.”
    Oppose the mad ate all you like, but be man enough to advocate your alternative.

  12. Tanklin J Crango says

    No way is anyone named Harry ever going to have a son, or any other child. Fail fail fail.

  13. What part of “The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States” don’t you understand?

  14. actor212 says

    Now, now, Harry, buck up, old bean! It’s not like you’ll actually have to pay the tax since you have insurance.

    Oh? You mean you never got figuring you were immortal?

    Gee, there’s a shock!

  15. That’s precisely why this is different than something you can elect to do. They can’t just legislate to force you to buy anything and implement a penalty if you don’t, this is constitutional precisely because you are coerced by your very humanity to use healthcare. If you don’t understand that, then you don’t have any business forming an opinion on the matter.

  16. If your hyperbolic argument holds weight, then America died in 1798 which was the first time Congress enacted an individual mandate to buy health insurance….

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Act_for_the_relief_of_sick_and_disabled_seamen

  17. empirechick says

    Justice Roberts’ opinion clearly says that no is required to buy anything, but you will pay a tax if you choose not to. Is this significantly different in theory than any other tax that comes out of my paycheck?

  18. smellers says

    Move to Somalia…I hear it’s a haven for conservative values (if you can stomach black people)

  19. Dan Verg says

    Lol. Your stupidity and ignorance are hilarious. BOO, THERE’S A NEW WORLD ORDER NEGRO HIDING IN YOUR CLOSET! Thanks for the laughs.

  20. “I think this is the day America died.”
    Over-react much? Jesus, I’ve never seen a bigger bunch of crybabies than you tea baggers.

  21. Gentlemen Rouge says

    “Is it really gone? Is the country gone?”

    No Goob, it’s not… really. We’re all here, just wait for the meds to kick in, you’ll be ok.

  22. Clearly, the mandate IS constitutional. The Supreme Court just said so (please try to follow along.)

  23. Harry, how can it be okay to ‘take away your freedom’ if it’s the state doing it? Aren’t our rights endowed by god?

    You can choose to get health care too- don’t go to the doctor, don’t go to a hospital.

  24. We’re a nation of serfs and overlords. The ruling today ensures for profit insurance companies will have millions of new paying customers even as they spend millions to lobby for watered down enforcement and changes that eat away at the rules. Just like the bank bailouts. Government essentially is nationalizing the costs of health care and privatizing the profits. Seen in that light, the Corporatists on the SCOTUS did what they’ve done in rulings going back to at least Kelo. Expanding the reach of our Corporate masters and limiting the ability of individuals to fight back. Every major ruling of recent memory has served this guiding principle from Citizens United to today’s ruling.

  25. You are right it was truly a horrifying day when the precedent was set that the federal government could just mandate someone to do something– to purchase something no less! And that day was May 8, 1792. In the second Militia Act of 1792. An act passed by a Congress made up of individuals fresh from drafting the constitution. It required every able bodied male citizen between 18 and 45, with several exceptions, to enroll in the militia and to “provide himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch, with a box therein, to contain not less than twenty four cartridges, suited to the bore of his musket or firelock, each cartridge to contain a proper quantity of powder and ball; or with a good rifle, knapsack, shot-pouch, and powder-horn, twenty balls suited to the bore of his rifle, and a quarter of a pound of powder. ”

    The nerve of those un-American Traitors! How dare they make someone do something!?! What did those treasonous fiends think?? That the founding fathers intended the federal government to be able to require everyone to do something in the pursuit of preserving the general welfare?? How ignorant they were.

  26. This fear-mongering, conspiracy theorist nonsense is laughable. You’d be better off getting back to your GED paperwork.

    How interesting that within an HOUR of the ruling suddenly a tape exists of blackmailing. Shades of Breitbart. This apocalyptic vision of yours is the product of a mind that could be termed “intellectually lazy” on a good day.

  27. “119 people like ToBeRIGHT.”
    But no pictures?

  28. Frank Adams says

    You’re an idiot.

  29. Hint: getting blown by a tranny hooker in an alley is not a “meeting”. Also, great post!

    Do you have a shred of proof for your witless lie? No! ’cause yer a doofus! It’s a real shame that so many people in this country actually think (I use that term loosely) like you do. Do you have health insurance now? Must be nice. Do you realize what it’s like to be one health emergency away from being on the street? I doubt it.
    Fuck you, “Harry”. Fuck you and anyone who thinks like you. You’re a paranoid, delusional, racist piece of shit, and I hope you think of me laughing my ass off when your precious “Job Creators” decide to sell your ass for a few more percentage points on their stock price.

    God forbid you or any of your family ever gets sick. Maybe you can ask Mitt Rmoney to pay the bills, eh?

    dick-eating piece of shit….

  30. “Later this afternoon, it’s going to come out that Roberts was coerced. A Secret Service agent overheard Obama and Axelrod discussing the Roberts blackmail. He managed to get them on tape discussing it. Later this afternoon, the whole story will come out, Roberts will issue his REAL opinion, and Obama and Axelrod will be taken away in handcuffs.”

    The fever swamp of delusional dumbasses has elected you President. Ayn Rand Paul was elected your vice President for his equally idiotic claim that the Supreme Court doen’t decide what is Cnstitutional.

    I feel bad for your kid though. Going through life with a blithering idiot for a dad is gonna really suck.

  31. Agnes Nutter says

    Something tells me that Manhattan “meeting” was what they call “apocryphal”. What did you flog when you were in sales? Hair restoration products?

  32. Talibandrew Breitbart says

    So where are the arrests?

  33. John Adams says

    This is a satire site right? Oh wait never mind. Back in a sec, I gotta go get some cheese to go with this cracker.

  34. Why do you conservatives hate America so much?

  35. Harry, it isn’t healthcare that makes ME sad. What I find sad is when cousins marry. Say Hi to your Cousin Daddy and Cousin Mommy, OK?

  36. Marconi Darwin says

    Harry says “Hehe – a liberal saying “love America.” Snort…”

    Must be true then. He loves America.

    Why do you hate it so much and live here?

  37. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH!

    Stupid or liar? With Wingnuts it’s just so hard to tell.

  38. “Will my kids be okay?” Yes, they will have health insurance, even with a preexisting condition or some horrible medical issue in their past. If they had cancer when they were 3, the insurance companies can’t decline them. So yes, your kids will be better off than they are today.

  39. Rose the amused says

    I’ve heard that a lot of the righties are heading for the Canadian border because they’re so unsocialistic and free. Oh wait . .. , never mind.

  40. kateinmt says

    And I guess I’ll do my part, too. I’m going to Tweet, Facebook, write letters, make phone calls, blog, heckle politicians, recruit friends, protest Tea Parties. I am going to do everything in my legal power to vote every right winger out of office this November. I will work tirelessly to this end.

  41. Wow. You’re clearly fucking insane. I feel bad for your kid.

  42. Offlogic says

    Harry sounds like the typical right-wingnut pearl-clutcher.
    What a weenie. Kool aid and tea definitely do not mix well.
    Even Nixon floated a universal health care proposal.

  43. Joe Gundlach says

    Pragmatist — So, because you say those the only other options, we are to submit to your wisdom? Well, it’s so not true. If you want to get the cost of healthcare under control getting the gov’t involved is the WORST way. We need to start in the courtrooms – not the Supreme Court – through tort reform.

    We need to bring the cost of insurance down. Why is it that liberals are always against the corporations until they get a chance to convert with socialistic solutions? Of course if the Socialists, er Democrats, have their way we will end up with a gov’t run insurance company as get rid of all the free market solutions.

    For a guy who supposedly wanted to help the middle class by spreading the wealth around, he sure took a big step backwards on this one. Demanding that Obamacare is no tax the way he did, only to learn that in order for it to be constitutional it would have to be a tax one that is aimed DIRECTLY at the middle class. Not gonna hurt the rich, and certainly not gonna hurt the poor…

    How long until the fed gov’t is forcing us to buy Volt 2s as the only socialized automotive solution? Failure to comply will result in penalty due to the IRS!!

  44. Deepest Throat says

    Harry, you sound like a true American Patriot and right now we need as many Patriots as possible. The conspiracy against Roberts includes “President” Barry Soetoro and his henchman Holder, Bill Ayers (of course), Michelle’s food Nazis, the Mau Mau Army, Hillary with her Lesbian Divisions, New Black Panthers with former ACORN members and Zombie Huey Newton and either a couple of over the hill former Madonna Homosexual Latino dancers or members of the hot new group “One Direction” . How can such a formidable group be beaten you ask? Only by Patriots with pure hearts that want to restore the Constitution as Jesus gave it us in 1776, Patriots like you! If you accept this task let us know by sending $50,000 to the Obama Campaign using your real address and “My Nipples Explode with Delight” as your name – we’ll get in touch with you.

  45. The handcuff thing… it probably won’t happen today. First thing tomorrow morning though, right?

  46. Frustrated! says

    Harry, I applaud you. This is the type of decision that causes militia to rise and wars to begin. Ooops…did I say that. But hey, I kinda think the reset button needs to be hit anyway.

  47. The mandate is constitutional—Basic premise—If you have insurance, you don’t pay—If you are a freeloader and just want to show up at an ER and make the rest of us pay—you need to shell out—How is that the end of America? Making people pay and play by the rules—Honestly, what planet are you living on?

  48. Watching Fox News does not make you a Constitutional scholar. The SCOTUS has the right and authority to rule on legislation. Future Courts can come to different interpretations; e.g., the Brown vs. Board of Education ruling that overruled Plessy vs. Ferguson. But to point at the Court’s decision and say, ‘wait, they were supposed to vote the other way!’ has no legal weight.

  49. Paul Hobbs says

    You could move away, but anyplace that’s decent to live in has single payer health care. Conversely, you could suck it up,

  50. This is the funniest, most retarded commentary I have had the pleasure of reading in quite some time. Fantastic! God, my sides hurt from laughing so hard!

  51. This is either very deft satire or Paul Krassner is right and it no longer possible to satirize the right wing, they do it for us.

  52. “Aren’t our rights endowed by god?”

    No. There is no god. And even if there were your rights come from the compact made between you and the government you live within, nowhere else.

  53. No one is stopping you from paying cash. You are welcome to pay cash now, though good luck finding a hospital that will tell you how much it costs ahead of time.
    Now you no longer are forced to pay for the health care of people who aren’t contributing.

    The most likely explanation is that the insurance companies called up Roberts and said, “without this, we’ll have Medicare for all. You have to find a way to make it happen, or we are bankrupt.” He’s always been pro-current-businesses.

  54. Xenos the Mutant says

    We are doomed… dooooooomed! America is dead because “they” are making me pay for something I don’t want/need/think sucks!

    Well, I would also rather not pay for CIA spy drones, billion-dollar-a-pop stealth bombers or congressional fact-finding trips to Thailand; but I do understand that a majority of my fellow citizens think these are valid expenditures, so I pays my taxes and I keeps my mouth (mostly) shut.

    So when a duly elected president proposes legislation that a duly elected congress enacts, and when the legality of said law is questioned a duly appointed court upholds it… I pays my taxes and keeps my mouth (mostly) shut!

    My father had a heart attack, and lost his insurance while still in the hospital because they suddenly (after four years of diligent payment!) found “preexisting conditions”. He later died from inadequate health care.

    So I say suck it up and enjoy the country where everybody has the right to bitch and moan about how terrible it is – all while living in one of the most awesome countries on earth.

    ¿x?

  55. Just Some Fuckhead says

    Please tell me this was spoof.

    There can’t really be people this stupid walking around. How do they remember to breathe?

  56. Land of the liberals! I’m flattered that so many liberals are reading ToBeRIGHT. Of course, you all come by and mostly do nothing but call names, but that’s alright… some of these are quite funny.

    The best part is that there is a clear distinction between you commies who are smart enough to see what is satire and those who are not.

    Regardless, thank you for coming by and commenting! It’s going to be a fun election season…

    Best,

    Harry

  57. Just Some Fuckhead says

    Roll the closing credits on “When Harry Met Sadly.”

  58. Thornton Thistlewick IV says

    The most important thing is that the Death Panels have been preserved. Bully!

  59. Joe Gundlach says

    The funny thing is that none of the liberals posting here even seem to understand how Obamacare even works. Those that do don’t understand how it is/will impact the economy, and worse the middle class. Once again, left leaning politicians proclaim they will not raise taxes on the middle class — the hold the shiney object high in the air to keep their constituants from paying attention to the substance — then use their other hand to shove more of the middle class into poverty — where they can get more gov’t assistance.

    In the end you have more in the cart than pulling the cart, because its so much easier to be simpleton drones than it is to try to climb out of the liberal self dug hole and stand on your own two feet. The American dream is dying and they are watching Obama’s disco ball while he reloads and take aim once again at the American Dream!

  60. Thanks, Joe. Of course, you’re right. Unfortunately, a well reasoned and thoughtful debate isn’t going to be had in these comments. A lefty blogger wrote post that highlighted my article – all these comments are spill over from her blog. I take it as a kind of honor, I suppose.

    I’m just having fun with this one…

  61. Gentlemen Rouge says

    Hell Harry, I’m ready to reason with you. But suggesting our country is gone is hyperbolic.

  62. Joe Gundlach says

    well where can a thoughtful debate be had?

  63. Tribeca Mike says

    “Later this afternoon, the whole story will come out”? Ahem, still waiting…

  64. Diana Powe says

    So, Mr. Brooks, you state that Mr. Gundlach is right (correct). Let’s see the economic data (as opposed to conclusory ideological statements) that supports the idea that government policies, solely enacted by Democrats, have “shove[d] more of the middle class into poverty”. Since it’s so obviously correct, the data must be just as obviously produced. Here’s a link to data about poverty from the Gerald R. Ford School of Public Policy which doesn’t seem to support Mr. Gundlach’s statement:

    “In the late 1950s, the poverty rate for all Americans was 22.4 percent, or 39.5 million individuals. These numbers declined steadily throughout the 1960s, reaching a low of 11.1 percent, or 22.9 million individuals, in 1973. Over the next decade, the poverty rate fluctuated between 11.1 and 12.6 percent, but it began to rise steadily again in 1980. By 1983, the number of poor individuals had risen to 35.3 million individuals, or 15.2 percent.

    For the next ten years, the poverty rate remained above 12.8 percent, increasing to 15.1 percent, or 39.3 million individuals, by 1993. The rate declined for the remainder of the decade, to 11.3 percent by 2000. From 2000 to 2004 it rose each year to 12.7 in 2004.”

    SOURCE: http://www.npc.umich.edu/poverty/#3

  65. Quick quiz, Harry. Name a first-world democracy WITHOUT universal healthcare.

    Go.

  66. Assuming you weren’t kidding…

    We’ve got the worst healthcare system in the industrialized world. We pay more than everybody else and get worse results. Granted the evidence that universal health care systems deliver better care and save money, isn’t objecting to such systems rather like ranting against infernal modern ideas like indoor plumbing?

    I appreciate that you have a narrative in which people like Obama have evil intentions, but can you really come up with a coherent explanation of why anybody would have an interest in keeping you from seeing a doctor, especially since the current system does a mighty good job of keeping lots of people from seeing doctors? For that matter, do you really think that a conservative democrat like Obama is some sort of Stalin figure? I really don’t want to get snarky, but you’re take on the guy sounds positively certifiable.

  67. I have a hunch that the right wingers who have the time to read this blog are neither very rich nor very powerful. The right winger readers here and/or their children are statistically and unavoidably destined to suffer a serious or even catastrophic illness at a time when they have been laid off, or are low on funds since illness does not discriminate on the basis of class or political persuasion. In such circumstances, I assume the right wingers will voluntarily suffer and allow their children to suffer – and even die rather than ask the government to help. Let the right wingers now take an oath to allow their children to die of disease in the event that they lose their heath insurance and lack the funds for needed treatment. For example, treatment for leukemia costs about $20,000 per month for medicine. I want to see the right wingers openly swear to refuse help from the government if they happen to find themselves unemployed, and without health insurance. Or assume this hypothetical: The right wing reader here was laid off from his job and when he was uninsured, had a freak auto accident causing the right winger to become crippled while his children became disfigured. If he had a spare $500,000 he might be able to have the treatment and surgery to avoid ending up a permanent quadriplegic and to save his daughter from growing up to look like a freak. Let us hear your pledge to not beg for your government to save you and your daughter because in your mind, it is more important to save money for the so called “job creators” (who are in fact rich, and will never need government’s help).

    Yes, the very rich have brainwashed the middle class right winger and turned them into sucker’s carrying water for them; and we see the suckers bellowing that it was a horrible sin against their God given liberty when the democratically elected officials of the United States government reached the conclusion that the right to life and health should not be apportioned based on inherited wealth (e.g., Romney) or good fortune in business, or great athletic gifts, etc.; and that since all of the ordinary (i.e., not rich) citizens (and their children) are equally likely (from a statistical point of view) to get cancer, heart disease, spinal injuries, arthritis, diabetes, crohn’s disease, etc. at a time when they are financially vulnerable, provisions should be made to cover the costs of essential health care for all of the citizens-even those who are too stupid to recognize the need for insurance or that the health, job and wealth they have today are ethereal.
    I can see why you hate the liberals. Unlike you right wingers, to us liberals, our children are dear to us, and we prefer their well being to helping the “job creators” getting more money, and we believe there is a God given right to live and be healthy, while obviously, you believe your God deprived you of those benefits. I think your God sucks.

    Moreover, while you right wingers think it is just dandy for your children and grandchildren to pay the debt for fake wars in Iraq and other foolishness we saw in the time of Bush II, we think it is ok to give our children life and good health today, even if there is a debt to pay later since the alternative for them may be that there never would be a later. Right wingers-do you see the difference?

  68. Cloudtreker says

    So… there seems to be a lot of uninformed people, that THINK they know what’s included in the ACA, and they are convinced that it will ruin the country. There has been a lot of chatter from the conservative side, telling everyone just what’s in the new law. Wouldn’t it be great to actually know what’s there? How about checking out this link… and finding out for yourself? I know it’s a strange idea… reading and making your own decision, but give it a try. You might actually like making decisions on your own, and not accepting what’s being told to you as fact. http://justinandrewjohnson.com/blog/Obamacare-Cognitive-Dissonance-and-What-the-Law-Really-Does

  69. “Conundrum: Obama says that people shouldn’t have to pay the medical bills for those who don’t have coverage, therefore everyone must have it. But the people who are forced to buy it are being forced to pay for health care for others, since the new insurance purchasers are need to fund Obamacare.”
    I think you missed some of what Obama said in his reaction to the ruling:
    Obama says that people shouldn’t have to pay the medical bills for those who don’t have coverage, EVEN THOUGH THEY COULD AFFORD IT, therefore everyone must have it. The people who are forced to buy it are being forced to pay for health care for others WHO THEMSELVES CONTRIBUTE THEIR PART , since the new MOSTLY YOUNGER AND HEALTHIER insurance purchasers (WHO WHEN GROWN OLDER WILL THEMSELVES BENEFIT FROM PAYING COMPARATIVELY LOW PREMIUMS) are needED to fund Obamacare .”
    No conundrum, no riddle, no enigma – if one does not resort to reductio ad absurdum…

  70. AlanDownunder says

    Americans. Paying about twice the developed country average per person for health care and behind most of them for longevity. And to keep it that way is To Be Right. Beyond laughable. Pitiable. At least US liberals have some kind of clue.

  71. jswiller says

    Dear Harry,

    I am sorry that your emotions are strange. I hope they get better.

    I was forced to buy car insurance. That made me sad. Being sad makes me sad, so I hope that tomorrow you’ll stop being sad. Also that your emotions get less strange.

    Best of luck in New Jersey.

    Your pal,
    Jswiller

  72. More facts please says

    “Later this afternoon,* it’s going to come out that Roberts was coerced. A Secret Service agent overheard Obama and Axelrod discussing the Roberts blackmail. He managed to get them on tape discussing it. Later this afternoon, the whole story will come out…”

    * That would have been yesterday afternoon. You may want to pay less attention to your source on this in the future, and to sources that use that same source. Could be that the evil you’re fighting has been just a bit overstated, and probably more than once.

  73. What is currently affecting the middle class with regards to health care is the fact that premiums are shooting out of control, deductibles are ridiculously high and you can go bankrupt and possibly lose everything because something you had zero control over could wipe you out.

    I love how conservatives time and time again just throw stuff out there that blatantly contradicts the facts. No, this will absolutely make life better for the lower and middle class and with the exchanges, will not put the pressure on small business owners.

    I don’t understand how people can be so blatantly against the facts that wrong isn’t even the right adjective used to describe what they’re saying. We need some sort of new Super Wrong, or maybe a German compound word that means, “Wrong to an embarrassing degree.”

  74. @Jim Harrison – There is no narrative that Obama is some sort of evil, rather that is a possibility out of several. I think in every post I have made with that notion represented it has been in the context of “why would anyone do this” type questions. Since there has been no discernible improvement from his policies, we can only conclude….he doesn’t know what he’s doing, or he does know that the policies are bad, but doesn’t care.

    Anyway….. that’s not really the topic here. This post was just a collection of random fun ideas – some true, some satire, some tongue-in-cheek, but all with a theme – as a conservative, I don’t think the government should be able to tell you to buy something and tax you if you do not.

    That represents another problem, which I think gets lost in my list of ruminations… I don’t think this is about health care. Most liberals do. So we’re kind of arguing with one another about two different things.

    Last – I don’t think anybody believes policy would be created with the intent of rationing health care. But shortages of care must be a consideration if we continue to reduce the amount of government reimbursements and add millions of people to the insurance roles at the same time, all without increasing the number of doctors.

    Thanks for at least the semblance of a rational dialogue. So many haters!

  75. @Gentlemen Rouge – yes, the “end of the country” is hyperbolic, for sure. I think that is a great indication about how I feel about this.

    So….all emotion and hyperbole aside – I think if you read through some of ToBeRIGHT you’ll find that when a liberal comes on and makes a calm and reasonable argument, we have a good time batting it around. I’ve always found it strange that there are more liberals than conservatives lurking these pages, but I digress…

    As I commented to @Joe, I don’t think this post is the place to have a good debate. Based on the tone of most comments, the folks are unflappable, much less interested in the debate exercise.

    So…. Have a look at some of the other posts, if you like. There are many that present honest conservative opinions where we can engage thoughtfully. This post isn’t one of em!

    Best,
    Harry

  76. mellowjohn says

    i absolutely LUUUUVS me the sounds of teabaggers whining. it almost makes up for bush v. gore.
    don’t worry, dude. to quote dan savage, “it gets better.”

  77. deathpaneldoggy says

    So you have a problem with a healthcare system proposed by a right wing think tank that has been enacted into law…
    Pearl clutching!!

  78. Hey @mellowjohn – no whining! Took a day and a breath – we got beat bad yesterday. Now it’s back to enjoying Tea! Speaking of Tea – your use of Teabaggers – why do you guys all have to call names? Almost every comment includes name calling. I don’t mind so much, but it’s an interesting observation…

    It does get better…. the election season is upon us…. nothing but good times ahead!

  79. @deathpaneldoggy – do you really think Obamacare was crafted by a right wing think tank? Really?

    Whatever the case, I don’t much care what any think tank puts out there. I do, however, care what has become law. Bottom line is that the government now has the power to tell you to buy something and tax you if you do not comply. Before yesterday, that power did not exist.

  80. Henry,

    Mandatory health insurance is not so different from mandatory car insurance. We insist that drivers have insurance, not only for their own sake, but because uninsured drivers costs other drivers money when they have accidents. Similarly, people without health insurance inflict costs on us all because when they get sick, we end up paying for their care. Which is why Romney’s Massachusetts scheme, the model for Obama’s health care system, insisted on a mandate and had to. (Note that the dissenting justices correctly pointed out that without the mandate, the entire system cannot work. That’s why they argued that the whole act should be thrown out.)

    I guess if I were enough of a libertarian, I would find it outrageous in the extreme that I be obliged to do something by the government, no matter how reasonable. Thing is, though, I don’t really feel that the government is always and necessarily an imposition on me, especially when it addresses an existential problem that can only be effectively addressed by cooperative action.

    You write that this [post] isn’t really about health care. The funny thing about that is how this remark corroborates the suspicions of liberals and moderates that Conservative arguments are seldom about specific, real-world problems but always about attitudes and feelings untouchable by facts or arguments.

    By the way, you also write that there has been “no discernible improvement from his [Obama’s] policies. In fact, the U.S. has been doing better than most industrial countries in the current depression; and the economic calculations I’ve seen indicate that a good part of the reason is that the stimulus, though inadequately large, probably saved a point or two of unemployment. Meanwhile, countries like the United Kingdom and France, which have followed Republican policies, are back in recession because austerity is simply counterproductive under current conditions.

  81. Halloween Jack says

    As long as you’re fantasizing about things that will never happen, dream of building a time machine and going back in time to convince Governor Mitt Romney to not pass his own version of healthcare, since he’ll be so dead-set against anything like it when he’s running for a different office in the future. Good luck with that, both with the time machine and the convincing.

  82. Let’s me point out a few things you might want to know before “demonizing OBAMACARE:
    1) Mitt Romey had the exact same program in 2004 for his state as Governor, they live more health and productive lives across the board. A side effect is lower crime and other issues, that come with this including treating drug addicts as medical issue: which a good rehab psychologist tells people, rather than a moral problem as most “religious twits think.

    2) It’s just like the DoD’s TRICARE Health System and that it’s worked pretty well in the past for me most of the time (as a 20 year Navy Veteran). If you’re so against it, then why didn’t you speak up for VETERANS who’ve been on TRICARE and taken care of by the “socialist” system you hate so much.

    2) Most of the EU -Socialists Countries: Norway, Sweden, Denmark, England, etc. who have socialized medicine have higher life spans and health citizens. Healthy citizens means productivity and consumerism. If your a worker who’s medical needs are taken care of, then you’ve got nothing to take away focus from your work or being away from work by being sick. Instead you can be a productive person, who’s being a consumer and producing a product of some kind. That when people who have no health care are forced to do illegal and immoral things to get treatment. When there’s health care, they instead concentrate on being productive to society and make it work. Notice that the homeless and crime rates are lower in these countries than the USA. Statistics don’t lie about information it’s basic numbers that should be seen as such.

    4) The fact that the game of Gov’t super medical care just ended and everyone is on an equal playing field. That you can now be seen at any public or private hospital for your health and they have to allow you in. The only exception is military which is why the politicians go there to the best specialized deal treatment. But if you’ve got a military relative, guess what you can go if they put you on their TRICARE plan and be seen for cancer, etc.

    5) CJ Roberts did his job, that the fact bribery has been used to brake federal laws shows no shame on the part of those corporations who did it. Honor and integrity mean nothing to these people. In fact, they’d let you die. Now you have a chance to be able to be productive in your life.

    Let me ask, if you had cancer wouldn’t you want to be able to be treated for it? Or would you just simply pray it away. How about your spouse or children? Do you deserve to loose your job, home and livelihood to a disease that can be treated and that the hospital says no because it’s a “pre-existing” condition. You’d do everything in your power to keep your loved ones alive. With the passage of Obamacare, its protect you from being turned away and being bankrupted by some jackass who’d pinching pennies to save the hospital money. Or even worse they decide to let you in and then take your money and you loose your job because of your family’s illness. Now you’re protected from being screwed over by the HMOs and other medical corporations.

    So instead you should say THANK YOU! to a man who made a morally right decision in face of corruption and bribery charges of his peers. Who knows that the best thing for the future of the USA is a strong work force and productive one. That they don’t have to worry about raped by their HMOs because of medical issues. That the your children and their children will be able to grow up without the fear of being terminated by some corporate peon who’s sees them as a waste of money. Who’s life could change the world. What if your grand son invents the first Faster than Light engine to allow us to travel. If he has cancer and dies then it never happens. Now he has the chance to make a better future. Instead of looking at this as a negative think about all the good it will do in you can live a long life.

  83. Hi @Jim Harrison – thank you for being civil!

    I think you’re right – both sides do this. I would add that I consider myself a conservative long before the word Republican comes up. I disdain much of what the GOP does, mostly that which is not conservative enough.

    Anyway… For me it’s a Constitutional issue. I think many (most?) federal legislative endeavors are un-Constitutional and should never have been passed. That said, I have no problem with a State doing some (again, most?) of this stuff.

    Take abortion for example. Although I am pro-life, I have no problem whatsoever if a State wants to pass a law allowing for unfettered abortion. I feel the same way about same-sex marriage. I have no problem with it, as long as it does not become the domain of the Federal Government; it’s none of their business.

    If a State passes some law I don’t like, I can move.

    Federal Government powers were supposed to be “few and defined” and the States left to handle all these specific nuances. And that is the crux of the matter for me.

    The car insurance issue is a State issue, not a Federal one. And of course, I can choose not to drive. Markedly different from a Federal mandate.

  84. Hi @Mac – Thanks for the thoughtful comment…

    1) Romneycare is a State program, perfectly acceptable under the 10th Amendment. While I never agree with State coercion, it is not comparable to a Federal mandate.

    2) My Uncle flew F4’s in the Pacific theater – you guys are the best. Thank you! Regarding DoD Tricare – it has no bearing on a new Federal power to force you to buy something or pay a tax, which is essentially my problem with Obamacare (I have many other lesser problems, but that’s the biggest).

    3) The Scandinavian countries you cite are tiny. Their system is unlikely to scale to 310 Million people. England is wrought with problems…waiting times, rationing, technology, etc. But all that is a moot point – we are not a socialist country (yet). One of the things that makes the USA exceptional is that we are free to make individual choices in a way not found in any other country in the world, or in history.

    4) This is a fine point, but suffers from a fatal flaw: Our Constitution does not provide for everyone being equal.

    5) I don’t follow the comment… But I have no ill will toward Roberts. I am, however, stunned by his decision because it is uncharacteristic.

    6) My family is filled with examples of terrible disease. My sister and father are both survivors. Brain cancer took my Mom. At every step of the way, we had the best care possible. I recently had a health scare and I was able to get right into to a GI doc, get the tests and treatment I needed – right away. When a bureaucrat check actuarial tables before approving a treatment, there would likely have been – ay a minimum – a wait for me, if not an outright denial.

    This comes down to a constitutional issue to me. The Federal Government has no authority to force me to buy something and tax me if I don’t. Well, it didn’t until yesterday.

  85. Keep up the good work, hilarious satire site! (Poe’s law!)

    But for those who believe it’s real and (gasp!) agree, you can move to Somalia. There is no government there, you’ll love it.

  86. I don’t see this as a government take over of the insurance industry. Nor do I see this as the end of the free market. Many – if not most – of the provisions were gleened from the Heritage Foundation and had the support of many Republican’s back in the day however, it wasn’t until President Obama formed the ACA based on these provisions did the Republican’s balk. The vitriol (This is socialism! Tyranny! End of the free market as we know it! Our democratic republic is DEAD!) and hyperbole (Now the government will force us to eat broccoli!) does absolutely nothing in the way of fixing our health care system. The abundance of misinformation does a great disservice to those who struggle to meet their medical needs and obligations.

    Right now people who do not have insurance wait until they are severely ill to seek medical attention, usually in the form of and ER visit. When these same individuals skip on the bill, who pays for it? Hospitals and doctors increase their costs in order to make up for the short fall, meaning higher premiums for those of us who do pay for health care.

    The ACA is VERY generous to the private insurance industry in that approximately 30 million people will be purchasing health care which in turn, will lower premiums for all. Additionally, there are no free rides with the ACA, which appears to be a major fallacy floating around. How is one a freeloader if they are required to purchase insurance? Further, it does not put government between a doctor and his or her patient nor does it take away policies that individuals currently have; they can continue to see the same doctors they’ve always have. Where does the industry get “hit?” By not being allowed to turn an individual with a preexisting condition away (currently in effect for children); Prohibits the insurance industry from imposing lifetime limits for healthcare; Prohibits the insurance industry from dropping an individual should one be diagnosed with a life-altering medical condition; Mandates that states form exchanges so individuals have “one stop shopping” when seeking to purchase health insurance; Parents are allowed to keep their college age children on their policies until the age of 26; Closes the Medicare Part D “donut hole” for seniors; Mandates that the insurance industry spend at least 85% of an individuals premiums on actual medical care. I can go on and on but I think this gives a pretty good gist … I just don’t see how there is anything coming close to a government take-over of insurance, tyranny, the end of freedom as we know it. Don’t worry free marketers! The insurance industry will thrive!

    As a bankruptcy paralegal, I can safely say that for every six clients we represent, an average of four out of the six become clients due to medical debt; a self-employed construction contractor who was already experiencing hardship due to the real estate bubble bursting found that his wife was diagnosed with breast cancer, which she successfully battled breast cancer for six years. They had insurance but due to high deductibles, co-pays and services not covered, they came to us with over $250K in medical debt and couldn’t keep up with the decrease in income and the ever increasing medical bills. Or the single mother whose son had leukemia (thankfully he is now in remission) and found herself in the hole for over $65K that wasn’t covered by her insurance. Or the 32 year-old former architect with brain cancer who came to us with approximately $130K in uncovered medical costs. These are not unusual cases – to the contrary, it’s more common than people think.

    It’s time the US moves up from 37th place in the world in terms of healthcare for its citizens. And in my mind, the ACA is a win-win all around.

  87. Henry,

    I tend to think historically about political issues. In U.S. history state’s rights have generally been invoked for lousy causes. The authors of the Constitution made many dubious compromises to get the country off and running, and many of ’em involved states rights. The protection of the right to have slaves is a famous example, but a continuing problem is the anti-democratic apportionment of Senators, a provision that makes states like Wyoming and Alaska the American version of rotten boroughs. And skipping the historical evidence that states rights are generally an excuse for somebody’s bad behavior, I note that state and local governments are far more likely to interfere in my life than the Feds. What’s with this notion that states can do what they like, even when it is bad, while the what the Federal government does is illegitimate, even when it is good and, indeed, increases my actual freedom as an individual?

    Bottom line: I’m not very impressed with abstract appeals to the Constitution, especially since everybody who treats that document as scripture manages to find in it exactly what they want to find. Indeed, I’d argue that Just as atheists make better bible interpreters, those of us who don’t make a fetish of the Constitution are more likely to be able to understand both its considerable virtues and obvious defects.

  88. Jason Landry says

    Why do I never hear any of these conservatives nutcases railing against mandatory car insurance?

  89. Bill Hicks says

    “I’m going to Tweet, Facebook, write letters, make phone calls, blog, heckle politicians, recruit friends, organize Tea Parties. I am going to do everything in my legal power to vote every leftist out of office this November. I will work tirelessly to this end.”

    Good luck there Mighty Mouse!!

  90. Job Creator says

    This is awesome. Conservatives crying for a “well-reasoned debate”- under an article accusing the President of threatening the Chief Justice’s children.

    Stay derpy teabaggers.

  91. Sam Meyerson says

    Om nom nom. The tears of conservative wingnuts – they are so sweet.

  92. It is perfectly fine for Congress to compel you to pay a tax, and then assign that money for any purpose they have specified. It is also fine for Congress to give tax breaks when income is used for specified purposes. We do this all the time. Everyday, Congress is compelling you to buy 70 dollar hammers and Medicare for the poor.

    Here, they simply have a tax and corresponding tax break if you purchase health care. The mandate is simply a tax break. It is not against the law to not purchase health care – they never said it was. You just owe a tax if you haven’t. Enforcement has always been assigned to the IRS.

    Somehow, you can be forced to buy things all the time through taxes, but when you are given a choice on how to get a tax break, that is usurping freedom??? Is this outrage for real?

  93. “3) The Scandinavian countries you cite are tiny. Their system is unlikely to scale to 310 Million people. England is wrought with problems…waiting times, rationing, technology, etc. But all that is a moot point – we are not a socialist country (yet). One of the things that makes the USA exceptional is that we are free to make individual choices in a way not found in any other country in the world, or in history.”

    I’m British, so not really my place to intervene in this debate. I do just want to ask Harry something, though: do you really believe that other people in other countries, even in the rest of the developed world (like the UK or the aforementioned Scandinavian countries), are not ‘free to make individual choices’? And do you believe we are ‘socialist’ countries, too?

    No malice intended; honestly curious as to how Western Europe is perceived.

  94. ProudGayConservative says

    “Later this afternoon, it’s going to come out that Roberts was coerced. A Secret Service agent overheard Obama and Axelrod discussing the Roberts blackmail. He managed to get them on tape discussing it. Later this afternoon, the whole story will come out, Roberts will issue his REAL opinion, and Obama and Axelrod will be taken away in handcuffs.”

    Actually, I think he probably was coerced, but it will never come out. At least, not until Justice Roberts does.

  95. deathpaneldoggy says
  96. El Ronbo says

    Don’t worry, your butthurt will be covered under Obamacare.

    BTW, I’m grateful to the right for branding health care reform “Obamacare”. The whole battle is a replay of the battle to get Medicare passed – go back and read some of the things Reagan wrote and said in the 60s trying to stop it from being passed. Like Medicare, this will end up being an incredibly popular program with the American people, as they see it saving both lives and money. Forever associating it with a Democratic President will be a gift to the left for decades, and a cudgel to use against any Republican running for Congress or the White House.

  97. Hello Harry,
    Nothing sarcastic or mean-spirited here, just a few additional facts to ponder regarding federal vs. state mandates and the founders:

    http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/102620/individual-mandate-history-affordable-care-act

    In 1790, the very first Congress—which incidentally included 20 framers—passed a law that included a mandate: namely, a requirement that ship owners buy medical insurance for their seamen. This law was then signed by another framer: President George Washington. That’s right, the father of our country had no difficulty imposing a health insurance mandate.

    That’s not all. In 1792, a Congress with 17 framers passed another statute that required all able-bodied men to buy firearms. Yes, we used to have not only a right to bear arms, but a federal duty to buy them. Four framers voted against this bill, but the others did not, and it was also signed by Washington. Some tried to repeal this gun purchase mandate on the grounds it was too onerous, but only one framer voted to repeal it.

    Six years later, in 1798, Congress addressed the problem that the employer mandate to buy medical insurance for seamen covered drugs and physician services but not hospital stays. And you know what this Congress, with five framers serving in it, did? It enacted a federal law requiring the seamen to buy hospital insurance for themselves. That’s right, Congress enacted an individual mandate requiring the purchase of health insurance. And this act was signed by another founder, President John Adams.

    Not only did most framers support these federal mandates to buy firearms and health insurance, but there is no evidence that any of the few framers who voted against these mandates ever objected on constitutional grounds. Presumably one would have done so if there was some unstated original understanding that such federal mandates were unconstitutional. Moreover, no one thought these past purchase mandates were problematic enough to challenge legally.

  98. “What the hell is wrong with John Roberts?”

    John Roberts doesn’t care if the law is a good idea idea or not. That not his job to decide, and kudos to him for recognizing that. So you can throw all of that out when trying to discern his reasoning.

    The constitutionality of the law, as found by the SCOTUS, is pretty easy to follow. Don’t think of it as a mandate. Think of it as a new tax applied to everyone (as congress has the power to do), but if you have insurance you get a tax credit. It’s really no different than getting a tax rebate for making energy efficiency improvements to your house or something like that.

  99. >Will my kids be okay?

    Yep, because now they’ll get to stay on your health insurance until they are 26. Hooray!

  100. @Michael – Yours is an excellent argument, but is not comparable to Obamacare. Here’s why:

    Article I, Sec. 8, clause 17 of the U.S. Constitution, says:

    “The Congress shall have Power To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislatures of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; ”

    Regulating and “exercising Authority over all Places…” including dock yards (ports).

    Furthermore, In Federalist 43 Madison backed up the notion that these places are fully supported by Congress. He said, “The necessity of a like authority over forts, magazines, etc. , established by the general government, is not less evident. The public money expended on such places, and the public property deposited in them, requires that they should be exempt from the authority of the particular State. Nor would it be proper for the places on which the security of the entire Union may depend, to be in any degree dependent on a particular member of it. All objections and scruples are here also obviated, by requiring the concurrence of the States concerned, in every such establishment.”

    The regulation you refer to is specifically enumerated in the Constitution.

  101. @Dan – I think it’s great that you chime in on the debate. Our countries have a bond that is quite strong, and I am always interested in your opinions.

    I can only offer perceptions, since i really don’t know much about your health laws….so really, this is only a perception.

    It seems that in the UK, everybody has healthcare. That much is evident. I have read many accounts of long waits and sub-standard care. But I have also read that care is readily available for those who can pay directly. My perception, then, is that there is universal health care but only the wealthy get high quality and timely care, while others are subjected to long waits, denial of coverage, etc. I’ve also read that this varies greatly depending on where in the country you happen to live.

    So – I would be most interested to hear your reality. Also your opinion about what we should do here in the USA…

    Best,

  102. @ex0du5 – Yes, the outrage is real. What amazes me is that you’re willing to twist reality to such a degree to champion your own subjugation.

    Government says, “You must buy this.”

    I say, “No.”

    Government says, “Then I’ll tax you!”

    So it’s taxing people for inactivity. You don’t see how that opens the door for the government to coerce you to do anything it wants?

  103. @Jason – we’ve covered the car insurance comparison, or lack thereof, ad nauseum. 1) Car insurance is mandated by States, as is their right under the 10th Amendment. 2) You are free to not drive.

    There is no analogy, as much as I’m sure you’d like there to be.

  104. @Cromunist – There is no way in hell I am going to be supporting my kids until they are 26. While they will still be “my kids” they will most certainly not be “kids.”

    Any grown person who needs to rely on Mommy and Daddy until they are 26 is quite pathetic really.

  105. The only way to get control of health insurance (and health care) costs in the United States is via universal coverage. To have universal coverage you have to have one of two things: (i) single payer or (ii) an individual mandate. Otherwise people will wait until they get sick to get medical care and shift the cost of it onto the rest of society. The individual mandate, first proposed by The Heritage Foundation during the Clinton-era healthcare reform effort, is (or was, anyway) more palatable to conservatives than single payer. So we will for the moment disregard the latter.

    Ergo, if you are against the individual mandate, you are against universal coverage. If you are against universal coverage, you are against bringing down the cost curve of health care and health insurance, and continuing the current, broken system, unique in the developed world, in which Americans pay multiples more per capita than any other society for results that, at the median if not in aeries of the very well-off, are mediocre or worse.

  106. @ David – I see your point. I would take issue with “the only way to get control of health care costs…” is one of your two options.

    My opinion is that there are many other ways to do this, the don’t require any increase in federal power and don’t cost taxpayers any money.

    How about allowing health insurance companies to compete across State lines and tort reform for starters?

  107. Thanks Harry,
    I was not attempting to compare Obamacare to “Washingtoncare” on a strictly apples to apples basis. Yesterdays SCOTUS decision really takes the word mandate out of the equation and instead replaces it by referring to the penalty for not carrying insurance as a tax. Congress clearly has that authority as Roberts points out (whether it’s a good idea or not, he also rightly refrains from making this distinction…that’s not his job). Much of the conservative outrage I’ve read leading in to yesterdays decision has been about federal vs. state mandates and that this was somehow an ‘unprecedented’ federal overreach and furthermore that there was some type of broad general consensus against purchase mandates (and specifically medical insurance mandates) among the framers. I was merely making the observation that, while admittedly not an exact perfect comparison with today’s Obamacare, the idea of federally enforced purchase mandates among the founding fathers is not as far in the weeds as it’s being made out by many of our current hostile right wing commentariat (not you though, Harry, I can tell you’re a reasonable and thoughtful guy). As we now all know, yesterdays Roberts decision renders the mandate a moot point. Cheers and thanks again for allowing me on your forum.

  108. @Michael – thank you! Your point is well taken. Of course, I believe it is quite a power grab, but we’ll agree to disagree.

    I had lunch today with a business associate and we were discussing this. He was surprised to hear me say that my opposition is based on enumerated powers; that to me it was not about health care, per se. This represents a big challenge for us. Opposing sides are often arguing about completely separate issues.

    Anyway, I hope you come back to my blog often and chime in. One of the things I like most about writing here is the debate. And I love the word “commentariat.”

    Best,

  109. The ACA is a very modest reform compared to what we actually needed. People should be complaining that it doesn’t do nearly enough, not that the Supreme Court’s decision represents “the day America died”. But I realize it doesn’t square with the right’s wild West, every man for himself, pull yourself up by your bootstraps even if you don’t have any boots, draw your concealed weapon and shoot down your antagonist view of how our country is supposed to work. And believe me, I know how it feels to have the country taken in a direction I don’t like; I felt that way every day from 2001 through 2008. So for cryin’ out loud, get a grip.

  110. I don’t think people understand what PPACA is about. I think they’re letting the GOP spin cause knee-jerk reactions. It was broken down into very easily understandable terms here: http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/vqory/supreme_court_upholds_affordable_health_care_act/c56sc5m but for those that would rather not read through the comments, one poster pointed out: “The biggest thing opponents of the bill have against it is the mandate. They claim that it forces people to buy insurance, and forcing people to buy something is unconstitutional. Personally, I take the opposite view, as it’s not telling people to buy a specific thing, just to have a specific type of thing, just like a part of the money we pay in taxes pays for the police and firemen who protect us, this would have us paying to ensure doctors can treat us for illness and injury.”

  111. @D – I read the post you linked to. It is a fine summary. As I read down the list, I said this:

    – Spends more tax payer money
    – Spends more tax payer money
    – Spends more tax payer money
    – New cost to businesses
    – Increases insurance premiums
    – Increases bureaucracy
    – new tax on business
    – Increases premiums
    – Increases premiums
    – Price fixing hurts business
    – Spends more taxpayer money
    – Increases burden on business

    And on and on and on…

    Virtually every provision that the author presented was either a new tax, a new expense for businesses in general, or something that will make insurance premiums go up (or run the companies out of business, since price controls are there too).

    Be that as it may, your view of how the new tax works twists and squirms to find a way to justify your own subjugation, like many of the commenters here.

  112. Harry, Agree to disagree. Agreed. Health care reform in a country of over 300,000,000 is a messy business and there are no easy solutions. Somebody’s got to grab some power, so to speak. If we continue sitting on our hands and accepting the status quo, a lot of hard working Americans will continue to lose everything they’ve worked hard their entire lives for merely because they’ve fallen through the cracks. Contrary to popular current right wing opinion, not everybody who doesn’t have coverage is a lazy pot-smoking socialist. It happens to hard-working god-fearing law-abiding church-goers as well as unsavory losers with no work ethic or moral compass. This is merely a first step and we’re bound to have setbacks, but it is important to take a step and for both sides to work at improving implementation and efficiency rather then for republicans to just take their ball and go home and try to dismantle the whole thing because they’re sore losers and don’t want that Kenyan-Marxist in the White House to get any positive credit. CBO still does predict huge budget reductions in the deficit over the next 8 years (another debate, I’m sure). I hope you come around to looking it this way at some point but I’m not holding my breath. I don’t expect anyone to agree with every position I take, I just don’t appreciate angry red-faced Tea Party Patriots calling me an America-hating pinko apologist every time there’s a debate. Uh oh…customer…gotta go.

  113. Stick around Michael! Maybe I’ll change your mind… 🙂

  114. Harry, you’ve got to quit smoking that skunkweed, it’s making you paranoid. Either that or you got some really good stuff, because you are high, high, high if you ever think that Obama & Axelrod would be taken away in handcuffs. They didn’t even ever do that to Darth Cheney & The Smirking Chimp, and those two deserved to be frog-marched to prison much more than anything Obama or Axelrod has ever done. Keep keepin’ it real for the conservatives!

  115. Rick Gambrell says

    Congress has enacted a mandate in the past. In the Second Militia Act of 1792, the government conscripted every “free able-bodied white male citizen” between 18 and 24 into a local militia overseen by the State, and required them to arm themselves. If necessary, they had to purchase. at their own expense “a musket, bayonet and belt, two spare flints, a cartridge box with 24 bullets, and a knapsack.”

  116. Patrick Henry says

    We must defeat Obama and every democrat who voted for this law. The country isn’t lost yet, but it stands at the brink. It would be better to dissolve the union and balkanize the country than to give Obama another term without electoral consequences. He is a master dissembler, and in denying that the mandate is tax during the passage debates, he is either a liar or a fool.

  117. ScottLawrence says

    It’s a fascinating mess. Roberts is a smart guy, who appeared to switch his position at the last minute to agree with what is obviously a liberal opinion. Did he do so because he wanted to show his court was not “political”? Of course, choosing a position to prove this point is still political, by definition. But that’s not the really interesting part. The fact that he changed the statute is the truly messy bit. judges rewrite statutes now? Oh, Pandora’s box is wide open. What an ugly mess this will cause. The Supreme court may be dealing with this mess for years.

  118. @Rick Gambrell – that is a good try, but misses the mark. Congress has specific powers to compel gun ownership in this context; it is an enumerated power:

    The Act to which you refer required all able bodied men between 18-45 years old to enroll in the militia, get a gun and ammunition, and train. The Constitution specifically provides for this, it is an enumerated power:

    Article I, Sec. 8, clause 16:

    “To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;”

  119. Enough of This says

    It would surprise no one–not even liberals–to discover certain chicago thugs threatened to kill Roberts’ entire family. After all, a trillion-dollar dictatorship is at stake.

    The Threat Theory makes perfect sense. When a layperson has a
    better grasp of the Constitution than a Supreme Court Justice’ (the
    non-affirmative action ones) it’s time to call bullsh1t shenanigans.

  120. @Enough of This – My comments about blackmail were a parody of a Vince Flynn novel. So, I don’t think there were shenanigans like that.

    I do, however, think that Roberts was thinking about this in unconventional terms. Something – some thought, conversation, something – compelled him to change the legislation so he could rule for it. I suspect we’ll never know.

    Of course, there is always the possibility that Roberts is not the originalist we all thought him to be. Ockham’s Razor and all that – the simplest solution is usually correct….

  121. Have you read John Carey’s post at Sentry Journal. In it, he makes a compelling case that Justice Roberts isn’t so far off the mark with this ruling. I’ll be honest, I have questions about why he redefined the mandate and then ruled in favor of it, but there may be more to this than meets the eye.

    To those who have commented and believe Harry is off base with some of his questions, I challenge you this. When has a government program, any government program, ever do anything except grow out of its original intent. It doesn’t matter if it is a program proposed by Democrats or Republicans, they always get bigger and bigger, and more out of control.

    The Affordable Care Act will do all of those things, plus make it harder for businesses, both small and large, to operate. The man I work for told me straight up that if it came down to him having to provide health care insurance, or paying the penalty, ie. tax, he would have to let at least 4 people go, just to be able to afford the costs.

    Stop and think about this for a moment. That is just one business. Consider the fact that many others may have to do the same thing. This will result in higher unemployment and will do nothing to really reform the health care system in this country. Do you really believe that is a good thing?

  122. @Harry – Insurance companies already compete across state lines. I work in Oregon, my company is based in Pennsylvania, our health insurance is out of Michigan. That doesn’t even get into national or nearly national companies like United Health Care or Kaiser Permanente.

    My frustration with the ACA is that it’s insurance reform, not health care reform. It doesn’t do anything to control the costs of health care, that could only be done if the government forced all insurance and medical companies to be non profit (the way Kaiser is) or if the government directly took control of insurance and health care the way the right wing is afraid “Obamacare” does but does not.

  123. @Jordan – Controlling costs IS the problem with the health care system. If the government didn’t try to tax and control every aspect of health care, and allowed the market to function, we’d have many fewer problems.

    For example, take veterinary care. My big, dumb hound dog recently ate a lightbulb, an actual incandescent lightbulb. I took him to emergency veterinary care. He spent two days and one night in the ER facility. He had an IV, various meds to help his GI tract, 3 set of x-rays to scan for pieces of glass, and a weeks worth of post ingestion pills. The entire think cost me about $1,000.00.

    A veterinary MRI is a tiny fraction of a human MRI.

    Why?

    Because a human MRI center has to employ an entire staff just to handle paper filing for Medicare, Medicaid, and various Insurance companies. If the paperwork is not filed properly, the doc doesn’t get paid. Then there is malpractice insurance the doc must pay. The overhead for a health care facility is massive. On top of all that medicare and medicaid often reimburse only partially what the doctor is owed.

    Controlling health care costs means reducing the regulatory and compliance burden on doctors and health care facilities.

    Another example is HIPAA. Great intention, but it cost doctors huge amounts of money in compliance.

    Getting the government out of industry will help drive costs down, not adding on layers of regulation and price controls.

  124. Do you realise your post has gone viral? Another of those “wacky Americans” stories.

    Just to set your mind at rest, your son will probably still be able to visit a doctor of his choice. Every other civilised country has some form of universal healthcare. Mostly it works fine – no death panels where I live. It also has the effect of keeping downward pressure on medical bills. In five years time you’ll be trying to remember what all the fuss was about.

    As for Roberts, even though your country is awash with guns and gun nuts, I think it unlikely he’s been heavied and will be denouncing Obama anytime soon. But you keep on fantasising. It’s just so funny.

    Love the blog. It’s better than Colbert. I’ll definitely be back.

  125. @Dandy – I know! It’s so funny to me that my blog has gone viral in liberal circles. I’ve said it before…I guess I should be flattered.

    Truth be told, I don’t mind liberals coming on here and commenting. I engage with those who are civil and ignore those who are foul-mouthed and hateful. I mostly enjoy real debate.

    It seems like what got so many leftists fired up is my (sillY) rumination about Roberts being part of some blackmail scheme. I thought that it would be quite apparently tongue-in-cheek, but evidently, liberals take these things literally. My guess is that they know exactly what it was, but are so blackened by ideology they (leftists) will latch on to anything they think makes the opposition look bad.

    Be that as it may, the debate for me is not so much about health care as it is about the reach and power of government. That is the context in which I ponder the future of my kids. What makes the USA exceptional is that we codified in our Declaration of Independence and Constitution that we derive our natural rights from God, and that the government serves at the will of the people. This decision is one of several that tend to reverse that codification. When the government can compel you to enter purchase contracts with other private entities, and confiscate your property if you do not comply, it is quite a departure from a free Republic.

  126. sidfaiwu says

    Perspective. That is what’s lacking from this. I can understand disappointment, sadness, or anger, “I think this is the day America died”? Calm yourself, Hyperbole. You and your children will be just fine.

  127. Cleve E. Littlefield says

    Your making a “tempest in a teapot” over this decision. It was OK idea with Republicans until Obama got it passed and then you flipfloped on the subject. The day “Freedom” died in America was the day ‘Citizens United” passed, not “Obamacare”. When the Wealthy can throw unlimited, secret money at our elections and politicians without any transparency, then we no longer have a free country. The 1% rule!

  128. @Cleve – A common misconception amongst liberals is that conservative = republican. Regardless, I’m not sure who you mean it was “OK” with. Did you not witness the Town Hall meetings and Tea Parties of 2009 and 2010? What do you think they were all about? Spending and Obamacare!

    Another item that leftists seem to have trouble with is this notion of 1%. People are constantly moving in ad out of income brackets. There is not a single amount of money from which each person gets a static amount. The 1% of this year is always different from the 1% of next year, and last.

  129. Agreed, Cleve…Tea Partiers here, listen up: Your country is still intact; no one’s going to force you to buy broccoli, take away your guns, or raise your taxes above 39%. You’ll wake up, the sun will shine, your kids will go to school, and America will be the same…EXCEPT: The goddam freeloaders who refused to buy health insurance will no longer be subsidized by you and me. And that’s because of Obama and Pelosi, who stole the idea from The Heritage Foundation, that bastion of free-market, libertarian thought. The Heritage Foundation first put forth the idea of the individual mandate back in the early ’90’s, and now your candidate, Romney, is the SECOND office-holder to run for president based on his record of instituting an individual mandate.

    Besides, ladies and gentleman, you do realize that the government ALREADY forces you buy something you might not want: insurance against poverty in old age. It’s call Social Security. Do you want to take that away, too?

  130. @Vinson – if the only difference will be freeloaders, why didn’t they just make people who go to an emergency room pay for it? Seems simple. If that’s the only problem, and the only affected area by Obamacare, why have a 2000 page bill to handle that simple problem?

    This business of the Heritage Foundation is absurd. The fact is that Obama, Pelosi and Reid crafted this bill.
    What came out of some think tank is completely beside the point, though based on the quantity of leftists citing the same irrelevant fact, it is c;early a talking point, ineffectual as it is.

    Romneycare…another canard. The fact is that what happens in Massachusetts stays in Massachusetts, just as it should, according to the Constitution. You want socialized, single payer health care? Fine – do it in a State. Nanny states like New York and California are going broke.

    What amazes me is the length liberals will go to excusing and embracing their own servitude. That the government can make you buy anything it wants you to have, and punish you if you don’t comply, seems to completely escape the lot of you.

    Of course, as statists, I guess that type of servitude is all just fine. Which brings us to the current disagreement… you and the rest of leftists want to be subjugated, while I and the rest f the conservatives and libertarians do not.

  131. Impeach John Roberts! Let Obama appoint a new CJ !!

  132. Enough of This says

    @Enough of This – My comments about blackmail were a parody of a Vince Flynn novel. So, I don’t think there were shenanigans like that.

    @ Harry — Rule nothing out. Reality is stranger than fiction. I don’t know how it would be proven that Roberts was threatened unless Roberts himself spoke out, but the theory fits too well. Roberts has two grandchildren. It would be truly terrifying for any of us if this “POTUS” or his goons warned that no police or government agency–FBI, Secret Service, CIA, Post Office–could save your family from having an “accident”. Recall back in February, Justice Breyer was mugged at machete-point at his Caribbean home, then had his Georgetown residence robbed. “Accidents happen”.

    If Roberts was threatened and sold us out to save his hide then he’s a coward: far better Americans than he accept the risk of death, some at all times.

    Jugears McMarx’s entire foul legacy rested on this decision. The Threat Theory is right up there with the theory that LBJ had JFK killed so he could continue Vietnam. Bob Costas/Kagan helped write the law yet refused to recuse herself . Could taxocrats’ moral bankruptcy be made any clearer? Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    Remember we now have a thugverment that can force you to buy a product and if you don’t, you will be fined the equivalent cost. What’s to stop the federal mafia next week from ordering you to buy a house, or pay the equivalent down payment as a fine?

    Here’s one the moonbats never thought of: how is government going to fine-tax the 30 million uninsured who couldn’t or wouldn’t pay for health insurance in the first place? Nothing has changed. The average American will still be paying the freeloaders’ and illegals’ bills, along with huge, new tax hikes.

    2012: It’s Romney or revolution.

  133. Hey, Harry!

    I’m really sorry that you feel subjugated. I and the majority of Americans certainly don’t. I don’t feel subjugated when I’m drinking clean water because our government regulates it. I don’t feel subjugated when I get on an airplane and feel safe because our government regulates that industry. And I definitely don’t feel subjugated when I get on my highway and know it’s pretty safe to drive on because our government regulates it. As for Romneycare being a canard, I’m not sure why you say that, except that you obviously don’t feel much connection to your fellow American on the other side of the country. I suppose you’d also be ok to just let the states that host our most precious National Parks do as they see fit, as well. Can’t afford the upkeep of Yellowstone? Screw the rest of the country! We’re gonna turn it into expensive condos ’cause we can under the Constitution.

    I for one don’t want to live in a country where my fellow American who happens to live in another state couldn’t care less about my state, or me his.

    In any event, I hope you can overcome your anger and start to feel the wonderful uniqueness of this country where all Americans are equal and deserve high quality roads, water, air safety, and health care. Because those are just four of the many things that bond this country together.

    Here are a few others, as told by “Joe Republican”:

    Joe gets up at 6 a.m. and fills his coffeepot with water to prepare his morning coffee. The water is clean and fresh because some tree-hugging liberal fought for minimum water-quality standards.

    With his first swallow of coffee, he takes his daily medication. His medications are safe to take because some stupid commie liberal fought to insure their safety and that they work as advertised. All but $10 of his medications are paid for by his employer’s medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance – now Joe gets it too.

    He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs. Joe’s bacon is safe to eat because some girlie-man liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.

    In the morning shower, Joe reaches for his shampoo. His bottle is properly labeled with each ingredient and its amount in the total contents because some crybaby liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained.

    Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some environmentalist wacko liberal fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air.

    He walks to the subway station for his government-subsidized ride to work. It saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees because some fancy-pants liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor. Joe begins his work day. He has a good job with excellent pay, medical benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some lazy liberal union members fought and died for these working standards.

    Joe’s employer pays the same standards because Joe’s employer doesn’t want his employees to call the union. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed, he’ll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some stupid liberal didn’t think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune.

    It is noon and Joe needs to make a bank deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe’s deposit is federally insured by the FDIC because some godless liberal wanted to protect Joe’s money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the Great Depression.

    Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae-underwritten mortgage and his below- market federal student loan because some elitist liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his lifetime.

    Joe is home from work. He plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive. His car is among the safest in the world because some America-hating liberal fought for car safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. His was the third generation to live in the house financed by the Farmers Home Administration because bankers didn’t want to make rural loans. The house didn’t have electricity until some big- government liberal stuck his nose where it didn’t belong and demanded rural electrification.

    He is happy to see his father, who is now retired. His father has Medicare, lives on Social Security and a union pension because some wine- drinking, cheese-eating liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn’t have to.

    Joe gets back in his car for the ride home, and turns on a radio talk show. The radio host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. He doesn’t mention that the beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day. Joe agrees: “We don’t need those big-government liberals ruining our lives! After all, I’m a self-made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have.”

  134. Vinson, the story about Joe is one of government dependence. That is an awful existence.

    I also think that it is a mistake to think that as Americans, we’re all equal. We’re not. Some people are smarter, some are dummer :-); some work hard, some do not; some are ambitious, some less so; some people are samaritans, some could not care less about others.

    But through all these differences, we do have one similarity. It is not equality, rather it is liberty. One of the things that makes us exceptional is that our Constitution guarantees us equal opportunity. It does not, however, give us equal outcomes.

  135. Hi Enough of This –

    I agree with you on a couple of points. FIrst, I agree that it is folly to think the 30 million who couldn’t or wouldn’t pay before, will somehow magically starting paying now. To add to your point, their contributions are needed to pay for the rest of the program, so now they (the current deadbeats) will be relied upon to subsidize the rest!

    I also agree with your “slippery slope” analysis. I wrote a satire yesterday about this. I like it because it is so believable! You can read not here: http://www.toberight.com/2012/06/obamacare-ruling-fosters-new-legislative-action/

    Lastly, I agree that Romney must be elected. I think the Roberts decision was an unmitigated disaster and I don’t understand it. Be that as it may, he left us with an opportunity to overturn the entire thing with a simple majority in the senate.

    The other conspiracy theories…. well…. I suppose I accept that it is a possibility – a remote one. The only reason I’ll go that far is because the ruling seems so out of character for Roberts. But in the wake of the immigration ruling, I am thinking that it is likely that Roberts is simply not an originalist.

  136. Harry,

    Well, as an American, I feel connected to the 22% of children and 25% of adults in Texas who don’t have health insurance, even though I live in New York. You’re welcome to feel separated from your fellow American, but I sure don’t. That’s what makes our country great – we stick up for each other. But feel free to feel separate from your fellow American in a different state. It’s a free country…:)

    I for one don’t want to live in this separate world you so eagerly embrace. And as for feeling government oppression because your water is clean and your roads safe, well, I really don’t know what you’re talking about.

    What I AM happy about is that those freeloaders who decide not to get insurance even though they can afford it are now being forced to pay. And that’s a conservative solution to this problem, whether you want to admit it or not (since I can tell your issue is not with this bill but the fact that the Democrats passed it). Or if, you are a Libertarian, you’d rather dismantle the entire social safety net and most of the government for that matter, in which case we really have nothing else to talk about since it’s never going to happen. That’s the thing: most Libertarians are going to live an unhappy life forever because most Americans support their government services, even if they’re unwilling to pay for them with taxes.

  137. Vinson – clean water and safe roads are fine.

    The difference between our ideology is that to me, sticking up for each other does not mean the government taking half of my earning to distribute it for all manner of ill conceived projects. A safety net is just fine.

    For example, I have a friend who makes a decent living in the tech industry. But his boy was born with a heart condition and has been in and out of the hospital many times. Sometimes, the child’s post surgical stay has been 4-5 weeks. There is no way a family of even moderate means can afford that.

    My point is that there are plenty of cases where we need an honest safety net. The circumstance I describe above is a great example – we should provide a safety net for them.

    BUT….

    There is no reason we need half the crap that the government spend (wastes) money on. From turtle tunnels to $900 hammers, we’re tapped out.

    This bill is a massive government power grab that give extraordinary power to the State over the individual.

    You can now be told what to buy. If you don’t, you will be punished.

    I don’t know why this is okay with you, but it seems to be. My impression is that I won’t convince you otherwise… but this is the crux of the matter: You find it acceptable for the government to compel you to buy something, I don’t.

  138. Well, Harry, I’m glad we agree on something: $900 hammers are an awful waste of money! lol…

    See, we can agree on what to keep and what to cut. What we must discard are these sweeping pronouncements: “Government is bad. It’s too big. And it needs to be dismantled.” Rhetoric like that is easy and cheap. What’s not easy is to go line-by-line and say “yes or no” to this and that. Sure, everyone want Smaller Government, Lower Taxes. Everyone — left, right, center. But the devil is in the details and that’s why we have national debates on this. The health care issue is resolved, and the country has spoken: two years of debate; 1 1/2 years of court cases leading up to the Supremes; now six months of a Presidential debate and vote in November. This is called Democracy, and you might not like being on the losing side, but that’s the way it goes sometimes. Trust me, there have been plenty of issues that my side has lost. You suck it up, live with it, try to change it, then move on. But this is how our messy Democracy works. Unfortunately, our government is also influenced (i.e. bought-and-sold) by big monied interests (i.e. Corporations), which is why the left and the right need to join forces to change our Constitution:

    http://www.getmoneyout.com

    As for the government forcing me to buy something, they do it ALL the time –> from car insurance to social security & medicare to taxing me when I fly on a plane. In fact, I think that the Supremes got it wrong when it comes to the Commerce Clause: they aren’t forcing you to buy insurance, the government is merely forcing you to pay your fair share. Fine, don’t buy health insurance –> you’re free not to! You won’t go to jail; there’s no other penalty except a tax that goes into a coffer to help pay your cost when you go to the emergency room. I don’t see why you don’t have a problem with that…especially when it’s a conservative solution to this problem of freeloaders!

    I can go on and on where the government forces me to buy something: how ’bout property taxes? A large portion of that goes to buying public education vis a vis our school system. If I don’t have kids, why do I have to pitch in for that? Because it’s the cost of living in this free and grand nation –> we’re all in this together, no matter how much you want to pick and choose.

    Lastly — Defense: what if I don’t want to be forced to contribute to an army that invades another country? Tough –> it’s the cost of living in this great country. You don’t hear me squealing and crying about my taxes going to something I don’t support. There are plenty of things I’m forced to “buy” that I don’t want. Same with you. That’s how it goes. Feel lucky that we were born into this country – no fault of ours – and celebrate it. Stop complaining, suck it up, and move onto the next issue while you’re on this planet for such a short amount of time.

    Cheers!

  139. The Republicans STILL have no plans to help insure the 30 million Americans who don’t have any insurance. Sheesh:

    http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/07/mcconnell-coverage-for-30-million-uninsured-not-the-issue.php?ref=fpnewsfeed

  140. I’ll keep it brief….

    “Sure, everyone want Smaller Government, Lower Taxes. Everyone — left, right, center.”

    I don’t think that is the case. Vinson, you seem like someone who I could probably sit down with, go line by line, and cut half of the crap government does. I really bet we could.

    What I see is a Congress and a President who are hell bent on spending us into oblivion. This year’s deficit is a projected $1.3 Trillion.

    Read through these pages, you’ll see I hammer GWB and R’s in Congress too.

    The added $5 Trillion in debt was, in my opinion, a complete and utter waste. I’ll get liberals on here saying that it saved us. Whatever – there is no proof of that at all.

    This is the only case I know of where the government taxes you for NOT doing something. Care insurance is state run.

    I think Social Security is an abomination and yes, I think it should be eliminated. I have a few articles here that explain why… But I realize it is unrealistic – the statists have successfully made it part of the foundation of society. Never mind it is a broken program, nearly beyond fixing.

    Last – I may go point for point on this post with you tomorrow…today I’m just spent. But I’ll tell you this… you are a model for many on your team. I have never – NEVER – banned a user or trashed a comment on this blog in the 5 years I have been writing. On this post alone since Thursday, I banned 2 commenters and trashed about 10 comments. The unadulterated hatred, the foul mouthed, disgusting vitriol was unlike anything I have seen.

    So, thank you for the good debate – swing back tomorrow and we’ll go a few more rounds!

    Best,

  141. Hey Harry…
    Yeah, the vitriol on both sides is a total waste of time, imho. Debate the hell out of something, vote, then move on. Take your lumps and deal with the next one. But for god’s sake, let’s all get together and change the Constitution so that we can get the money out of Washington. It’s the only way to REALLY get our representatives to vote our interests. It works on both sides, and just to show you that I’m open-minded, my senator – Schumer (D) – has sunk on many occasions the attempt to get rid of the “Carried Interest” rule. That rule for all you libs and conserves is this:

    I’m a hedge-fun guy, and I now manage $1 billion of my clients’ money. I pay myself 2% of that billion PLUS I take 20% of the profits. So far so good. The problem lies in the taxes that the government levies. They aren’t too high — they are too low! You see, the 2% is taxed at ordinary income, which is normal – it’s his salary. The 20% profit that he makes by gambling his clients’ money? It’s taxed at the Long-Term Capital Gains rate – 15% – as if he were investing his own money, holding it for a year, then taking profits. We can argue as to whether that 15% is too high or too low (WAY too low, imho), but why does the government tax him at the same rate it would if he were investing/gambling his own money? It’s not his money! I’ve had at it with Schumer’s office on this loop-hole that he doesn’t fight to eliminate and that costs us fellow tax payers some $6-8 billion in lost revenue. But guess where the majority of these hedge-fund guys work? Wall Street New York City, of course. And guess how much money they give Schumer? You got it…

    This is where Occupy Wall Street and The Tea Party meet: http://www.getmoneyout.com

    Sign the petition!

  142. Thomas Franklin says

    You are pathetically insane by any measure of history or judgment. My god. Coercion? Do you realize what kind of ammunition this gives the left wing? Obviously it was a disappointing result, and who knows what the SC politics are, or why Roberts went the way he did–I mean, who predicted Souter, either. But this is pathetic–just stupid stuff. I’m sorry I visited. Good luck in the wormhole of your mind.

  143. Thomas Franklin says

    PS, I will be interested to see if you print my prior comment.

  144. Tommy boy, I’m not afraid of your silly comment.

    Here’s the punch line…. YOU are pathetically insane by any measure of history or judgment, in that you didn’t seem to pick up on “…like a Vince Flynn novel…”

    I’ve been laughing all the way to the back link bank because you dumb ass leftists don’t know the difference between tongue in cheek, analysis and hard news.

    Hahahahhahaha! I got like 100 new links to help boost my blog rankings in Google listings….all because you libs are such fools.

    I can’t wait to write a really good satire…. You commies from the leftward land of silliness will wet your pants again, and give me another boost in the search engines…

  145. Murphy Was An Optimist says

    Harry,
    The insurance mandate is the bugaboo of today for the “Conservatives” (I prefer to call them radical reactionaries, but nomenclature isn’t so important to me). “Oh my god, they’re stealing our freedom by making us pay for insurance! America is dying!”
    Before that, it was the big, bad illegal immigrants and before that (and to this day) it was the “tax and spend” liberals.

    Where is your oh so righteous indignation about allowing corporations to buy and sell politicians and political favors? Government corruption (AKA “lobbying”) is a much bigger problem than any of the above.

    What about our insane Intellectual Property regime? No issues there huh? Lobbying groups pressing to make home videos with a pop song playing in the background and posted on the Internet a *criminal* offense? Copyrights that last for the owner’s lifetime *plus* seventy years? It’s an abomination.

    Even better, why aren’t you screaming bloody murder when the government places equipment in key Internet access points and copies every email, every web site and every internet posting they can, both *inside* and outside the country? That the government can tap our phone as will without any warrant or justification. That our government can indefinitely detain or even kill its own citizens without charge or reason?

    Where is your outrage that the government consistently erodes our privacy and by extension, our free speech rights? These are not partisan issues. Nor are they anything new. A dyed-in-the-wool conservative, Dwight Eisenhower warned us about the government, the military and industry grabbing for power, money and influence more than fifty years ago. We ignored him, and the government, military and corporations (mostly the military and corporations) got fat on *our* money.

    These days, they don’t even try to hide it. The Patriot Act, the enormous private sector feeding at the military and intelligence troughs, the Citizens’ United decision to name just a few. Doesn’t anyone read Santayana anymore?

    Sure, we need to cut the waste out of government. We need to make the US a country “of, by, and for the people” once again. That means equal opportunity for all, including making “one man, one vote” a reality.

    That means getting the sewer of money out of our political system. Sadly, those who have the power to change the system are themselves in thrall to the monied interests who care only for their bottom lines and bank accounts and not about the welfare of the country as a whole. Until we get the money out of politics, we will remain on oujr current path to self-destruction.

    We can argue about the right way to create, manage and maintain our social safety net, our healthcare system, immigration, education, our crumbling infrastructure, and so many other critical issues. In fact, we should argue about those issues.

    But when those who are tasked with making our country work (both republicans and democrats) are so beholden to folks who could care less if we all starved to death while choking on polluted air and water, as long as they get theirs, no honest debate can take place.

    You say you want our country to thrive, you say you don’t want to see the land of my birth to decay and die. I say, put your money where your mouth is. Speak out against untrammeled corporate power! Rail against the shredding of our constitution by power hungry technocrats! Call on any who will listen to raise up their voices against corruption, corporate/government collusion and laws designed to silence dissent! We need to clean house before we can redecorate, Harry. Or do you just want to tear it all down and dance on the rubble?

    What say you?

  146. Mack The Fork says

    So how did this conspiracy theory work out for you. You should run as President Of Dumbfuckistan with that kind of material.

  147. Hey Mack, you dumb-ass commie. You clearly have a problem figuring out what is news, what is commentary, and what is tongue in cheek. Context clues something you missed in 4th grade?

    Worse, all you leftist assholes seem to have the same deficiency. No wonder you’ve screwed up every public policy position you’ve ever taken.

    Have a blast cheering for your own subjugation.

    What a freakin idiot.

    Don’t come back.